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Buyer Insights: Deep Mahajan On How Trust Is Built

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Having trust established is the only way to complete a sale. Deep Mahajan, a Senior Director at Nutanix, discusses why trust is so critical, and how to build it with her.

Walmart has just about anything you need. But they don’t know a whole lot about you.

Your experience setting foot into Walmart is the same as mine.

The same things are on the shelf, we’d zigzag through the same aisles, we’d push the same carts, and we’d wait in the same lines.

Contrast that experience to Netflix, a company that’s all about a custom experience.

They know what their customers like, and they curate an experience that each customer is more likely to enjoy because it’s made for them. 

Creating a custom experience for each buyer is brain-dead obvious, sure, but most don’t do it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat through a demo, or heard a service sales pitch that made it clear that the seller wasn’t listening, let alone applying my answers to their questions.

That’s not trust building, that’s “see ya later” inducing, dealbreaker behavior.

My guest on this week’s episode believes trust to be a big factor in every decision she makes. In this week’s Modern Sales episode, I interview Deep Mahajan as part of the Buyer Insights series.

In the episode, you’ll learn:

  • How needs bubble up in her organization, and why a vendor’s perspective isn’t enough

  • The three key questions she needs everyone to answer before she chooses to do business with them

  • How her consideration set is narrowed from the entire universe to just the Top 3 before she ever interacts with most vendors

  • The magic dollar amount that triggers a longer, more involved evaluation and buying process

  • Who’s involved from her team in every single purchasing decision – and the other teams at her company that she involves, too

  • What she needs from salespeople: “I would appreciate a seller to come and tell me why I should perhaps not buy his or her product, and consider something else for my solution. And if I get that, I’d trust that person more and perhaps go to that person when I do have a need for their product, rather than somehow convince me that all of my problems would go away if I were to go with their product.”

  • Why she thinks sellers should be more like Neflix  than Walmart

  • The one thing you can do to be seen as trustworthy by Deep

  • Why she does respond to some cold outreach, even when she finds it irritating

Connect with Deep on LinkedIn
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For more information on remote selling and a complete list of links mentioned in this podcast, visit this remote selling article on our website.


Buyer Insights: Deep Mahajan On How Trust Is Built:

Full Transcript

Deep Mahajan:
It’s about having the confidence that the person has understood what my problem is, and is genuinely trying to solve it for me rather than selling his or her product. While I know that the whole goal of that meeting is product selling, but I would like the goal to be problem solving in which the product just becomes an element to meet that higher goal.

Liston Witherill:
Welcome to Modern Sales, a podcast for entrepreneurs, business owners, and salespeople looking to have more and better conversations with your perfect clients. You’ll get a healthy scoop of psychology, behavioral economics, and sales studies to help you create win/win relationships. I’m your host, Liston Witherill, and I’m pleased to welcome you to Modern Sales.

Liston Witherill:
Can I trust you? Of course, I don’t know the answer to that question until I know a whole lot more about you. How trust works is critical to understand how buyers think and how to be successful in sales. It’s trust that enables us to hand over huge amounts of money. It’s trust that makes or breaks our relationships. And it’s trust that generates referrals and follow on business with any client you have.

Liston Witherill:
Trust is something I think a lot about, and in today’s episode of The Buyer Insights Series on Modern Sales, trust is a theme that just kept coming up for my guest, and that guest is Deep Mahajan. You heard her at the start of the show. She’s the Senior Director and Head of People Development and Culture at Nutanix. In this conversation Deep reveals her process for buying, including how she finds and evaluates options, what constitutes a trusting and valuable relationship, and under what circumstances you can get her to reply to a cold call or a cold email. That’s all coming up right after this break.

Liston Witherill:
So, Deep, my first question is things happen within your organization and you find out that maybe there’s a problem that exists now that you weren’t sure existed before, maybe some external change happened, but I’m curious, how do you consider buying services from an outside vendor? How do the needs bubble up to you in the first place and then you make a decision, hey, this is something that we need some help with?

Deep Mahajan:
So if I was to answer your question from where you started it, a problem or an external factor that is leading to a need within the organization, the first thing that me and my function would do is to understand what that need is all about. Our own understanding of what that problem is, it’s very important even before we think of the solution.

Deep Mahajan:
So we spend good enough amount of time to analyze what that problem is and what are the possible solutions where we can play an active role in resolving it and make an impact, therefore, on that problem. And then the decision point is to how do we really get that solution to life and I want to use our internal resources. What kind of manpower is required? What kind of value add is required? Is that a skill that we already have within the team? Or we may have that skill within the team, but it may make more sense to outsource it still because of other priorities.

Deep Mahajan:
So consideration of all those factors will help us arrive at a decision on whether or not we’d like to involve a vendor for that solution creation essentially. So that’s the process that I would follow to really get to a decision of going for an outside vendor or not. And also for what purpose are we going for an outside vendor for.

Liston Witherill:
And so going back to the problem for a second, is that something that you’re evaluating completely internally? You haven’t engaged any outside vendors yet at that point, you’re just trying to define the bounds of what’s involved in this problem? Or are there times when you start to engage with vendors because they may be experienced in helping define the problem itself?

Deep Mahajan:
Yeah, so both would happen and that really depends on what that problem is all about. There is a subject matter expertise that my team has. We bring a point of view. We represent the learning and development function of the company, which means that we understand a lot about the culture. We understand the needs of our people, we understand the skill level of our people. We also know what it would take to manage change for our people. So we already have that information, which gives us some advantage to understand that problem and translate it for our context.

Deep Mahajan:
Well, but having said that, sometimes the internal perspective is not enough. You need an external perspective from the standpoint on how are other companies doing it, what are some success stories where a similar problem was solved in a similar context or a different context? What are some new ideas that [inaudible 00:05:17] and that could again be a place where my function might want to have a consulting partner in the form of a vendor who helps us in understanding our own problems better by giving that external perspective. So the answer to your question is both can be a possibility, depending on the problem.

Liston Witherill:
How do you know when you might have a blind spot that’s big enough where you might want to engage an outside vendor an earlier or presale consultant?

Deep Mahajan:
Yeah, that’s a very good question. And I think the success or achievement, or the value of my department actually rests on our ability to one, have fewer blind spots and two, by knowing where we have a blind spot and we need to identify it and being aware of it.

Deep Mahajan:
In terms of how do we know whether we have a blind spot or not, I personally depend on our business folks a lot to help us clarify and help us build a perspective which is outside of the HR or learning and development realm. They are very connected to what’s happening in the real market. What are the customer preferences. What are the why’s behind the changes that are being accepted within the company and that are important for the company from a strategic standpoint.

Deep Mahajan:
So the more connected I stayed with the business, the more awareness I have of what I know and I don’t know, and then I might need help because even though we are an expert function, I don’t claim expertise of knowing everything that needs to be known there.

Deep Mahajan:
So in all humble is one of our values and from that perspective we are a learning function and we want to learn and then it starts with the awareness that we may have a blind spots. My business more often than not becomes the source of my knowing if there is a blind spot and therefore seeking help to dissolve it.

Liston Witherill:
So if you can think to maybe a recent procurement activity or a time when you’ve hired some outside vendor, whether it’s a product or service, let’s say you get to this point of saying, “We have a blind spot. We want some help. We know we’re going to engage someone outside of the company to help us in some capacity.” Maybe you don’t know how much yet. How do you go about finding options for vendors at that point?

Deep Mahajan:
My first go to is always my network. I have networked very well with other L&D professionals who I respect, who I have worked with in the past, whose work I have had a chance of experiencing, or seeing in some format, and they have gained my respect and their recommendation matters to me. Their own personal note on what they feel about the vendor, their strengths and weaknesses matters to me. So that’s my first go to.

Deep Mahajan:
My second go to would be, I do visit a lot of conferences and learning events and summits. Events is a big part of what we do in the company for my function. So that also becomes a source for me to have an original opinion about, “Hey, I saw this vendor, or their product, they talked to me about it, they gave me a demo.” That to me is is a good source of information at least to get the conversation going as well.

Liston Witherill:
I see. And so for conferences, are you more attuned to speakers, or sponsors, or what ways do you look at vendors, at sponsors that may be influential or impactful enough to elevate to the level of being top of mind when you may have a problem?

Deep Mahajan:
Yeah, so to be very honest, we do have a lot of vendors and options who are available, who are wanting to seek attention. I think creativity really matters to me and the substance of what is being offered really matters to me. So whether it’s a keynote by a speaker or even if it’s a booth which has a vendor, what’s unique about it? How are they attracting my attention? How are they solving my problem? Are they attracting me into their stall by talking to me about a problem that I’m facing or are they just talking about the product that they have, which might help some of my problems?

Deep Mahajan:
Those things matter to me because the faster that you get to the point, the better it is. So same thing for keynote or speakers that are they able to hold my attention based on something I’m trying to solve in my world and therefore becomes a lead for me to go chase and see if I want their services or not? That’s important. So that’s what I would look for. Their creative way of presenting themselves to really address a real problem that I’m facing.

Liston Witherill:
How many vendors typically end up in your consideration set? Once you say, “We have a problem. We’re going to seek outside help. We’re going to start contacting people,” how many vendors end up in that set typically, where you say ‘We’re going to evaluate these against each other and see who has the best fit for us”?

Deep Mahajan:
I do typically start with the larger universe. I do have a benefit of having a team who can do that groundwork for me to have options and do the fullest level of work with all the options and have them present to me what are the top options that they have identified out of the universe that they have established.

Deep Mahajan:
Because I am a picky selector of vendors, so I do want to know and have the benefit, or the satisfaction rather, of knowing that we have evaluated a considerable size of universe before coming to our list.

Deep Mahajan:
So they do the groundwork. I would say they would go to anywhere between five to 10 vendors when they’re doing their groundwork, but by the time the proposal will come to me, I would want them to not suggest more than their top three, and those are the ones that we’ll do a deep dive on. They will already have a set of questions that they have answered, comparing those vendors on the parameters that are important to me. I’ll look at those questions and I’ll add to them, give a color to them based on what could be the criteria that they might want to use to select them. And it’s never too different from what they have already put in place. But yeah, that’s my selection process. So three would be my number.

Liston Witherill:
So you’re looking for three vendors, and has anybody from your team engaged with these vendors at this point or are they mostly doing website research? Maybe asking referrals and references for feedback about the five to 10 that they want to get down to three?

Deep Mahajan:
No, they would have already done that research. So they’ve already spoken to these vendors. They have asked them whole lot of questions, much more than what they will present to me to evaluate. They will even have first level proposals of the vendors ready with them before they present to me.

Deep Mahajan:
What I have seen is that sometimes it depends on the urgency also, but sometimes when we do have the time to go through the process, then the top three vendors who are in the fight will be asked to come onsite and do their demos and if it’s a very critical high investment, high budget investment, I will sit through those demos to see them myself, ask direct questions, or else if I don’t have the time then I will put my team to go through those demos and ask them questions and reach a decision based on that. But yes, to answer your question, they would have done all that groundwork before they make a recommendation to me.

Liston Witherill:
What dollar amount would you say would elevate to the level of, I forget exactly the words you used, an expensive project, or a very important, or big a project, where you would want them to come on site and really spend a lot more time with you, one to one.

Deep Mahajan:
Anything about 100K is going to be meeting that criteria.

Liston Witherill:
All right, so everybody listening to this should be taking notes. This is amazing. Now tell me, you get the decision set, you have your top three vendors, it sounds like you basically have a giant file on each one. You can compare the three vendors against each other. Surely all three could meet most of your needs at this point, I’m guessing. And so there’s probably some subtle or nuanced differences between those vendors. Who ultimately makes the decision, and typically how is that decision made given that, let’s say something in a market like LMS, there’s probably not a huge difference between the vendors.

Deep Mahajan:
So your question is who makes the decision or how it is made?

Liston Witherill:
You caught me, I was trying to sneak both in there.

Deep Mahajan:
I can answer both one after the other. Well who makes the decision is the easier one. I am the head of L&D, so I make most or all of the decisions that pertain to people development, of course in consultation with the Head of people. But yes, from a budget standpoint, I have a budget which I have a full authority of spending, based on our prioritization of course.

Deep Mahajan:
But now how the decision is made, I do have a super consultative approach, so hardly any of my decisions would be done in a silo. So before we pull the trigger, I would want to definitely have the Head of people aligned to it. I will share it with my HR LT, which is HR Leadership Team, to also just at least eyeball of what we are going with, what solution are we proposing. Not necessarily with the point of view of making them make the choice, but at least asking them an opportunity to give feedback on their preferences or any experiences they want to share with that vendor. So that’s the second group.

Deep Mahajan:
And then the third group is my business stakeholders, like I said, that I really, really trust their advice because they come from a totally different perspective and sometimes they do change your thought or thinking about it. They have strong opinions and they’re not always favorable opinions, but if I get them on board early on, then I have a better chance of succeeding in future. And that is why in how the decision is made, I do want to include their viewpoint.

Deep Mahajan:
So once I have these three viewpoints, again it may not overlap entirely, but definitely I start seeing a color on where we are leaning and that we are in the right direction and then that helps me precipitate the decision.

Liston Witherill:
And is it fair to say that you’re only engaging with salespeople from your vendors after you get that top three list? Is that pretty much the first time you’re exposed to the sales team?

Deep Mahajan:
Yes. There is a customer manager that I have seen most of the vendors have and I will always insist upon having the customer manager be involved from day one with the sales manager. Because I have had in the past experiences where you have an excellent experience with the salesperson, but once you are handed over, it is not as good, it is different, from what it was promised. And that’s obviously not a very good thing from a customer standpoint.

Deep Mahajan:
So I have, as a practice, always wanted to have my customer manager involved from the very beginning or insist upon having some continuity with the salesperson ongoing. So that the key criteria based on which we are deciding needs to get preserved through and through the relationship and if I need the sales portion to keep it alive, then that’s the option that I would like.

Liston Witherill:
Now let’s look at the flip side. I’m sure you’ve dealt with some salespeople who’ve made some mistakes along the way and I’m curious what mistakes do salespeople make that you wish they would correct, or if they didn’t make these mistakes, they probably would have won your business.

Deep Mahajan:
I can say a few of these. So one is that trust is so important and I cannot emphasize more the importance of having the relationship based on trust. What do I mean by trust? It’s about having the confidence that the person has understood what my problem is and is genuinely trying to solve it for me, rather than selling his or her product.

Deep Mahajan:
While I know that the whole goal of that meeting is product selling, but I would like the goal to be problem solving in which the product just becomes an element to meet that higher goal. And as in then sales people have had that product mindset versus a customer mindset, I’ve been able to identify that very clearly.

Deep Mahajan:
I would appreciate a seller to come and tell me why I should perhaps not buy his or her product and consider something else for my solution, and if I get that, I will trust that person more and perhaps go to that person when I do have a need for their product, rather than somehow trying to convince me that my problems are all going to get over if I was to buy their product.

Deep Mahajan:
So that trust building to me is the one single biggest thing that a seller should have in mind when they’re even approaching the customer. Do you know me? Do you know my world? Do you know my problems?

Deep Mahajan:
I can give you an example on how I feel like some companies have done this very well for their customers. So take the example of Netflix and Walmart. They are both, in some sense, retail vendors. Walmart sells products. So when a customer gets into Walmart, they purchase whatever they want to purchase, go to the billing counter, pay and get out of the store. Whereas when you log into Netflix, Netflix tries to understand the customer, their individual preferences, it notices, they’re watching times, they’re watching preferences, and serves something which is customized, which is personalized, which is meeting their specific needs.

Deep Mahajan:
And that is why Netflix has a customer mindset. Whereas, Walmart does not know anything about who bought my product. Their objective was met, the point of purchase, the credit were swapped, and the money was in the back, and product was exchanged for it.

Deep Mahajan:
So that’s what I mean by product mindset versus customer mindset. That as a seller, if you don’t understand the mindset of your customer, really getting into their shoes and empathizing, then you’re really missing a big part of it because you will probably make a sale, but you will not win a customer unless you understand that.

Liston Witherill:
I want to go back to this idea of trust, because I totally agree with you, that trust is the make or break factor and especially when we’re looking at that 100K range or above, really anybody can make a promise. You can look up how much funding the company has, or what their track record is, or what logos are on their website, but none of that really means that they’re going to do a good job for you. And so ultimately your risk in every situation is, is this person actually going to deliver? And the only way you can be comfortable with saying yes to that is if you trust them.

Liston Witherill:
So I’m wondering, you mentioned one way that you perceive someone as trustworthy is if they say something against their own interest. “They tell you don’t use my product. I don’t think it’s right for you. Use this other one, you’d be better off doing that.” Are there other signals that you use to figure out whether a vendor or a sales person is trustworthy?

Deep Mahajan:
This is not a positive signal, but I have had experiences in my long career where it’s a big no if you commit something to your customer, you’ve got to stick to that word. You cannot go back on it. So clarity of communication. I’m not saying that somebody may have done it intentionally, but somewhere that clarity of communication is a trust building ability.

Deep Mahajan:
There are things that are a part of the contract. There are things that are not a part of the contract. How much of those things are you making the aware of early on rather than late in the game? How much of them were clearly communicated to me upfront so that I have full clarity on what I’m getting? Because from a customer standpoint, I don’t know what I don’t know.

Deep Mahajan:
So you have to take that conscious call of really opening the curtain to me as much as which is just enough. I don’t want to know all the things, but I really do want to know something that matters and I would not like to get surprised with it later on. So that clarity of communication, that intelligent way of just knowing how much is just enough, is also very important for trust building.

Liston Witherill:
Absolutely. I want to ask a couple more questions about maybe how you find vendors. So one thing that you hear a lot about, or at least I hear in my world and all the people that I’m connected to, are these debates about what’s an effective way to start new conversations.

Liston Witherill:
So I’m not in favor of blasting a bunch of emails with the intention of just having the opportunity to sell you something right away. I generally think that doesn’t work. I don’t like it when people do that to me. And what I’m looking for are relationships that are based on trust.

Liston Witherill:
But at the same time, I know there are people out there who don’t know who I am, who might be able to benefit from some of the things that I’m doing. Of course, I don’t know for sure, but I’ll never know unless I have a conversation and neither will they.

Liston Witherill:
So one of the ways that a lot of people are looking to start these conversations is through what we call cold email outreach. I don’t know you, you don’t know me, I identified you because various things, actually it’s how you got on this podcast. How often, if someone’s coming to you with the hat of saying, “I’m a vendor who could sell you something related to learning and development,” how often do you get cold email outreach and how often do you respond to it?

Deep Mahajan:
I do get cold email outreach. I am always asking the question, how did you get my email? But I do get a lot of that. To give you a frequency, I would get on an average two to three mails a week, and that’s on the lesser side. On an average week I really get cold email messages. Sometimes they are passed onto me by my colleagues. Sometimes they are direct. So that’s the frequency of it. And what would be my response to it?

Liston Witherill:
Or do you even respond at all?

Deep Mahajan:
Of it is not relevant to me, I don’t bother responding, honestly because every time I’ve been polite to respond to a query which was not relevant to me saying that, “Well, this does not concern me,” or “I will pass this on and let that person be in touch with you” it just results into another email and another request and another. It becomes a thread.

Deep Mahajan:
So I like playing dead there and saying your email didn’t reach anyone. [inaudible 00:24:19] in that impression. But if I see that there is something in there which is intriguing and which is worth considering and which relates to my realm, especially if it is a problem that I am solving right now, then I would pass it onto the right person on my team to do further evaluation. So I will make that connect, ask this person to reach out, and see if there is any value. So that is going to be my approach.

Deep Mahajan:
There have been times when people have called me directly on the phone and I don’t know how they get the number, but they have called me on the phone. And I do remember at least on one occasion, even though it irritated me initially, so my first impression was, “I’m in a meeting” or “I’m just going for a meeting,” I was driving somewhere, and this person called, but I did find what she was saying to be like, “Really? You guys do that? Tell me a little bit more about it.” And it resulted into a conversation which I was then able to pass onto, again, a team member of mine to evaluate further.

Deep Mahajan:
But I thought about it that you know how lucky of this person to have found me when I really was looking for a solution which she probably has.

Deep Mahajan:
I don’t know how to advise you on whether to cold call or not, because 90% of the time you will end up either not getting responded to or being responded to in a slightly irritated manner. Which you don’t want. That’s not how you want to start a relationship with the customer.

Deep Mahajan:
But then how else? The other smart way, it could be in places where your customer is going and looking for a solution. So if I’m visiting a portal, or I’m in part of some HR community on a portal like CEB or [inaudible 00:26:01], and if I have a question in that realm, then you know that I already have a question in that realm, and you have a solution, so you reach out to them.

Deep Mahajan:
So that’s the best way because you know there is a problem there, but otherwise it becomes a long shot. So you will land there two out of 10 times, but not more perhaps.

Liston Witherill:
That’s a good segue to my last question, which is about, you’re part of several communities and you just mentioned there are places where HR and learning development people hang out online or even offline. To what degree do you expect vendors to be part of your community? How important is that to you?

Deep Mahajan:
I would say it’s very important because I do believe in my vendors. I think we take lot of services from vendors and each one of my vendors is a very big part of my overall strategy on what they are contributing and how they are playing there. So I would like vendors to be a part of these communities because we still aren’t reached a stage with the innovation in L&D is done and all of it. And we have a set group of players who are the top players and others trying to be.

Deep Mahajan:
There this lot that needs to still get discovered in a weighted, systemized put on an IOT platform. There’s so much more that needs to be solved that I really am looking forward to some of these vendors solving the problems where I think they should be working. There are so many problems that I can just list to say that we need a solution here. And whoever does the first newer thing there, their product’s going to sell like hotcakes because all the L&D leaders are struggling with this.

Deep Mahajan:
So I really want vendors to be there because who knows that a smart group of L&D folks just started a start up and it is on a solution that is the most required by the L&D organizations. So I really want vendors to be a part of it and not be kept away from the innovation and advances they are making in their spaces.

Liston Witherill:
So let’s do a thought experiment now. You leave your job and you don’t have the L&D network that you’ve already built right now, but you know everything else you know about the L&D world, you start a new company, what would you do in order to get the attention of and sell to your first three clients?

Deep Mahajan:
I would want to first make sure that my product is solving a problem that I know that these three clients have. So that’s the first level of validation that I will check because that’s what I’ve want my product to do. I want my product to help the customer rather than sell the product. So that’s why my first step would be that I know, that I understand your problem and I know where my product can really impact your problems. So that’s the first thing that I will do.

Deep Mahajan:
Second would be to find a way to get in front of them in a way that can help me attract their attention, which I know I will if I’ve done step one correctly. I will get their attention in step two, get in front of them.

Deep Mahajan:
And three, I would like to, besides making sure that I tell them how my solution is solving their problem, I would like to tell them how it’s unique and how it can help them in ways that the competitors cannot. How it’s something cutting edge and new where nobody else is doing something, or if there are already other players, how does my product really stand out and make that impactful entry into their minds in a way that helps them see that here is one solution which can generate impact for me and bring value.

Deep Mahajan:
So I think those three on the top of my [inaudible 00:29:47] experiment. I’ll probably come up with a different answer if you were to ask this again, but yes.

Liston Witherill:
That’s okay. No, that’s a perfectly fine answer. Thank you. So Deep, thank you so much for everything you’ve shared. I’m sure there’s some people listening to this who would like to learn more about you personally, maybe even get in touch with you. What’s the best thing for them to do?

Deep Mahajan:
I think the best thing that they can do is get connected with me on LinkedIn and as they do that they can drop in a note about the fact that they’ve heard me on this podcast and that will just get them started talking to me.

Liston Witherill:
Fantastic. And your LinkedIn profile is linked in the show notes, so listener, if you want to connect with Deep, you can click right from the show notes and connect with her now. Deep, thank you so much for being here.

Deep Mahajan:
Thank you very much. The pleasure was all mine.

Liston Witherill:
That’s it for this third episode in the Buyer’s Insight Series. In next week’s episode, I’ll be back with another solo episode discussing the difference between selling services and products, and I’ll tell you why the answer can be found in an infomercial.

Liston Witherill:
If you aren’t already subscribed to this podcast, please do so by clicking the subscribe button. You can also be notified of all podcast episodes and get daily emails from me, yours truly, along with some other behind the scenes info, as well as exclusive content I put out, by signing up for my daily newsletter at servedontsell.com/newsletter. It’s totally free. It’s linked in the show notes and if you haven’t already do follow me on LinkedIn. I’m there quite a bit.

Liston Witherill:
Thanks to everyone who makes this podcast possible. Juan Perez is our editor. Maryanne Nocom is our show assistant. Our show theme and add music is produced by me, Liston Witherill, and the show music is by Logan Nicholson at Music for Makers. Thank you so much for listening. I’m Liston of Serve Don’t Sell, and I hope you have a fantastic day.

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Check out the four sales fundamentals every top performer masters, how to use value-based selling to increase your leverage, and how to improve your remote selling skills as the world becomes more virtual.

And check out the SDS method if you want to improve your sales process.

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