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Cold Prospecting Emails That Actually Work with Jack Reamer

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Sending cold prospecting emails still works, but it takes some careful planning and a touch of empathy. Jack Reamer from Emails That Sell pulls back the curtain and shares everything that's currently working for him and his clients when it comes to cold email.


Cold Prospecting Emails That Actually Work with Jack Reamer:

Full Transcript

Jack Reamer:
Not everybody is keen to reply to a cold email. Not everybody uses LinkedIn. Not everybody sends tweets on Twitter or likes on Facebook. Your prospects are not all the same. They’re not robotic. And just because they have an email address, it doesn’t mean that’s the best place to engage them, especially if you decide to take this first degree approach where you want to expand your network on LinkedIn and then use the network to sell to later on, which, to me, I think is the future and presence of outreach. It’s about growing your network and then selling to your existing network, as opposed to just hitting up strangers. I’m thinking this is where the whole party’s moving.

Liston Witherill:
That’s Jack Reamer, the cold email guy and the man behind Emails That Sell, his cold email business. He also runs a podcast with Jeremy of QuickMail.io, and they recently released a course on cold email too. Of all the people doing cold email in the world, Jack is one of the very few who I recommend and doesn’t set off my own personal spam filter. Like other folks I’ve had on the podcast to talk about cold email, Jack’s approach is always high quality, high touch, high empathy, and low spam threshold.

Liston Witherill:
I recently participated in my friend Jason Bay’s Think Outside the Script tour. You should still sign up now, by the way. Just go to tour.blissfulprospecting.com. And I found it interesting that most of the other speakers said that if they could only choose one channel for prospecting, they would use LinkedIn.

Liston Witherill:
I totally disagree with that. I chose email. Here’s why. There’s less of an algorithm separating you from your potential clients. People spend most of their day in email. You have way more control over your message and how it’s sent and when it’s sent and when they see it. And it’s much more private. I like all of that.

Liston Witherill:
The problem with email, like all forms of outreach, is that the rules of the game change really quickly. Jack Reamer has taught me a few things about cold email and I asked him to jump on the podcast to talk about what’s current in cold email, what’s no longer working, and how he’s using cold outreach to land new clients for himself and for his clients. By the time you’re done with this episode, you’ll have at least one new tip that can land you one new client. Let’s go.

Liston Witherill:
Welcome to Modern Sales, a podcast that’ll help you sell more by understanding how people buy. I’m your host, Liston Witherill, founder of Serve Don’t Sell, and I dig through academic research, interview people inside and outside of sales, and nerd out on psychology, economics, and neuroscience to figure out how people make decisions. And I am on a mission to change the way 100 million people sell so that buying B2B services can feel just as good as watching the Blazers win the NBA title. Not this year, but maybe next year it’ll be game time.

Liston Witherill:
If you’re listening on Spotify, hit that follow button so that you don’t miss an episode. And if you’re listening on iTunes or Apple Podcasts, please subscribe and leave an honest review. It helps me get the word out for the show so that we can together change the way 100 million people sell. I invite you to join my mission. Let’s do it. Thank you in advance for your help. And now, to the show.

Liston Witherill:
What does it take to send cold emails that get opened, responded to, and land you meetings? Find out in my conversation with Jack Reamer right after this short break.

Liston Witherill:
Welcome to Modern Sales. Once again, I’m Liston Witherill, and I am here with Jack Reamer of EmailsThatSell.com. Solid URL. Welcome, Jack.

Jack Reamer:
Thanks, Liston. Nice to be in your cast. Let’s do this.

Liston Witherill:
Let’s do it. So you are someone who does, I don’t know how you describe it. On your website, you say two lead generation services, done for you lead gen, and one-on-one sales consulting. So just really quickly, how do you think about what you do and what you’re great at?

Jack Reamer:
So I run an agency called Emails That Sell for B2B companies that want to generate more leads. It’s a done for you service, however, I do find that occasionally they’ll be a business owner, a VP sales with a particular sequence, a campaign that’s not performing, and sometimes they want to do some consulting and I just sort of figure out what’s wrong with their messaging, their prospecting, set them straight, maybe deliverability. So between consulting and we’ll do it for you, there’s pretty much a nice mix to help people with generating leads.

Liston Witherill:
I’m curious about this lead gen issue. So as you probably know, Jack, I mostly work with professional services companies, business owners, independent consultants, accounting, IT services, PR, marketing, that kind of thing. And I have a pretty strong opinion that if they’re not already doing prospecting, they shouldn’t invest there. I think they should be investing more in brand oriented marketing for a variety of reasons. But let me tee this up for you. One thing that I see that’s really clear in the data is it takes more emails and more general attempts, touches, right, in industry speak, in order to get someone to a meeting on average. Now, that could be a study that has tons of people who don’t know what the hell they’re doing and that drives up the number of touches it takes.

Liston Witherill:
What are you seeing out in the wild? Since you work with a variety of clients, what are you seeing is actually working right now in terms of going from cold, someone who doesn’t know me, to someone who’s on the phone with me?

Jack Reamer:
There’s a spectrum, Liston, and think of it like a commitment spectrum from low to high. In an email, we can ask a number of different things, such as, “Hey, are you free next Tuesday at 2:30 to have a quick discussion on this?” or something like, “Is this of interest? Is this something you guys are currently working on?” And so I find that the higher up in this spectrum you find the call to action, the more you ask of the prospect, the lower your response rate goes.

Jack Reamer:
So it becomes this balance. Because we can’t just ask fluffy questions that lead to nowhere. Yes, our reply rates may be a little bit stronger, but if someone’s listening and they’re like, “Man, it is taking so many touches,” but that’s not really the problem. I think the problem is, “Wow, we are losing so many prospects in our funnel. Only 3% end up booking with us.” I would encourage them to dial back the call to action, take it a few steps back from, “Hey, let’s have a conversation, let’s have a demo,” and maybe just gauge if there’s interest, if there’s a need of a problem around this topic.

Jack Reamer:
And what you’re doing is you’re sort of changing the role that this outbound message has. It goes from scheduling the appointment to entering prospects into your funnel where you can then schedule, right? So I kind of see email or LinkedIn messages as a two step process. Process one is getting the reply, and then once you have the reply, go ahead and get them scheduled. That’s the nice mix that we’re seeing work right now.

Liston Witherill:
So one thing I like to do on this podcast is to be specific. So let’s take your business as an example, let’s say your prospecting, I know this is meta, dear listener, but hang with me here. Jack is prospecting to sell done for you prospecting services. So Jack, how do you think about what dialing it back would be for you? So for you, going in for the kill, I hate using military metaphors, but everybody does, would mean, “Hey, are you available this Tuesday?” or, “Click this link to book a time with me to talk about me doing your prospecting for you.” What would be dialing it back one or two steps?

Jack Reamer:
“Hey, listen, do you want to see the LinkedIn sales playbook we’re using right now?”

Liston Witherill:
I see. Okay. So I say yes, and then what happens?

Jack Reamer:
Then you get the playbook. It’s basically sometimes a video, sometimes a one-pager with the process and some ideas, some strategy. And half the time, that’ll encourage someone to say, “This is really cool. Maybe you can tell me more about this.” And especially, we follow up once we send a playbook, right?

Jack Reamer:
So that’s a perfect example of dialing that back. I don’t ask for the conversation right away. In fact, it really helps if they digest some of your content first before you engage. Because the real drawback with outreach is if they haven’t seen content yet, you kind of have to establish that, and there’s a number of ways you can become an authority, even when you reach out to prospects. But I find this is a nice balance because they see the content, so you become more of an expert. And also, you’re not asking for the moon, it’s just, “Hey, here’s something, it might be interesting since you’re doing XYZ,” and then the conversation begins.

Liston Witherill:
So you’re sending them a PDF, and then…

Jack Reamer:
I rarely send PDFs, man. Sometimes it’s a Google Doc or a short video is even better that’s made specifically for that prospect. Yeah, I don’t ask the prospect to spend much time at all on the resource I give them because I haven’t earned it yet. So if it takes two minutes to consume and it peaks their interest, it’s done its job.

Liston Witherill:
And then, after that, you would say, “Would you like to talk about how this might apply to your company?” Something like that?

Jack Reamer:
You don’t even have to say that. I mean, if you’re talking to the right person and you give them something that’s really helpful and they can see this applied to helping them get more deals, they’re usually the ones that say, “Hey, what else do you have or what else do you guys do? Can you tell me more about your services?”

Jack Reamer:
Again, you have to be talking to the right kind of people and you have to give them something that’s interesting. If I gave them a really lame 2011 LinkedIn playbook, it wouldn’t help me at all. But I find that you give someone enough goodies, they’re going to come to you for more.

Liston Witherill:
So take me through, you get a new client, I guess this is free advertising for you. That’s the point of you being on this podcast anyway.

Jack Reamer:
Yeah, maybe. I like to do these interviews because they’re fun, but I guess it doesn’t hurt if people find out about what we do, but yeah.

Liston Witherill:
Fair enough. We can have dual motives. I’ll allow it. So you get a new client. I guess one of the things I’m interested in is I see a lot of people doing outbound already who aren’t doing it very well, and I see lots of problems with it. And usually, as you were kind of pointing out, it comes down to targeting, messaging, and then the level of commitment you’re asking, and of course relevance is baked into all of that.

Jack Reamer:
And then there’s timing, which is a little bit harder of a variable to control, but…

Liston Witherill:
Okay. I want to come back to that actually. That’s interesting. Tell me, what are the pieces of information you need to know from a new client in order to do a good job to do outbound for them?

Jack Reamer:
So here’s a very dangerous question to ask a client when you set up outbound for them, “What kind of companies do you typically work with?” And once you ask that question, you’re going to get shoot from the hip kind of here’s what I’ve been seeing answers. “Oh, we typically work with this kind of vertical, this size company.”

Jack Reamer:
What’s scary about this is even if the person you’re talking to is the CEO or the VP sales, they are going to give you a general picture of their target audience, when in fact, if you would have asked them, “Hey, can you show me a client roster from the last 12 months? I want to see not only the names, but the domains of the companies that have paid you money. And ideally, let’s have a hierarchy here so score them on one to three. I want to see the best accounts you work with. And I want to see all of them in a CSV, a Google spreadsheet. And I’m not going to ask any more questions about your target audience. I’m going to actually take each one on that list, run them through some,” let’s say, “lead enrichment tools out there and see what the data tells us is your best accounts to target.”

Jack Reamer:
And that’s what I call data-based prospecting, which I think would save a lot of people the headache that’s involved with starting up a new outreach campaign. Because we’re wrong 90% of the time the first go round and using data just shortcuts a lot of the mistakes that could be made.

Liston Witherill:
And when you’re doing the lead enrichment, what are some specific factors you’re looking for? I’m guessing obviously its industry, number of employees. What else are you looking at?

Jack Reamer:
So you need to first think about what are your options in terms of building a list. Because what we’re really doing at this stage, Liston, is kind of what Facebook allows us to do when we do a lookalike audience. We say, “Facebook, here are some leads or customers,” upload email addresses, it’ll find matching people that you could serve ads to.

Jack Reamer:
So we’re kind of doing the same thing with accounts here. And unfortunately, nobody has built an AI that does this for me because I think there’s a possibility, I’m all ears if there’s a thing like this, but what we’ll do is we’ll feed each company into three or four different databases. So [inaudible 00:13:06], yeah, [inaudible 00:13:07], Angel, even Yelp if you’re going after brick and mortar companies. And I want to see when they’re founded or weird things like what’s their Yelp rating, or does the CEO have a certain rating on, what’s that website, glassdoor.com, or are they using certain technologies? Sure.

Jack Reamer:
I mean, a note about technologies that I think is really helpful is let’s say you have a hundred companies that have paid you money, go ahead and sort by look up each technology. You can use BuiltWith for something like this. And then we have a program that will take every single technology used by every single account and we’ll see if there’s any patterns by sorting them by frequency. So we’ll say, “Oh, did you know that 40% of your customers are currently using some fancy technology.com?” And that typically gives you an insight that you never would have bothered to look for.

Jack Reamer:
That’s why I’m kind of staying away from the classic industry and company size and founded date. I mean, those are kind of easier ones. I want to look if they’re funded, the tech stack, the location. So we even map out… Clients can see like little pinpoints where all of these companies are based in and we’ve done filtering where it’s like, “Okay, yes, you have some accounts in Europe, but far more are in Austin, Texas and New York City,” so we run the campaign just on those two cities. We just try and gather as many columns of data next to every account and see the patterns that emerge. It’s like 80/20 applied to prospecting.

Liston Witherill:
Here’s the counter argument to what you just said though. So let’s take your example of we think that we’re serving a global audience, but they’re mainly in Austin, Texas and New York. Well, that could be because there’s more startups of a certain type in that area and the word of mouth is stronger, and so we’re getting a networking effect.

Liston Witherill:
One of the problems that I have with just looking backwards as our method for choosing who our ideal prospect is, is we could have landed those clients totally by accident. There could have been like no articulated strategy. And I think one of the promises of outbound for a lot of companies is now I get to choose who I approach and I can have maybe a more proactive or thoughtful or try a new market, something like that. Do you see that as a trade off ever? When I’m looking backwards, I’m losing the opportunity to sort of choose what my next market is?

Jack Reamer:
We learn way more than we would have by scrapping this process. So what’s kind of nice is there’s a quantitative approach and then we have a discussion about it. So we’ll say, “Hey, here’s what we learned. Did you know eight out of ten clients you have are in Austin and New York City?” And the client has the chance to say, “Oh yeah, Jack, that’s because that’s where our HQ is and that makes a lot of sense because our team members are located there.” So if that’s the case, then it’s like, “Okay, great. Let’s go to the next pattern that we saw,” and, “Hey, is this worth looking into? Did you know that most of your accounts, 60% of them are actually in automotive when you told me at first you could go after a wide variety of clients?”

Jack Reamer:
What we’re looking for is especially true for the companies that say, “We really conserve a lot of different verticals here. Let’s start with a couple and see how they go,” but it’s far more effective in my experience to say, “Well, you’ve made a splash in a certain different kind of vertical, let’s start there first because it’s low hanging fruit.” And in the first month of a campaign, if we want it to be wildly profitable for a customer, we’re taking as much risk off the table as possible.

Jack Reamer:
So yeah, maybe we could run into something that is counter productive, but usually during the debriefing phone call, we can isolate any learnings that actually aren’t that helpful.

Liston Witherill:
So tell me about timing. Timing is something you mentioned as being kind of an important variable that I totally skipped over. What do we need to know about that?

Jack Reamer:
Well, you need to know the timing matters when you’re reaching out cold to prospects. It could be that the exact same message sent six months from now will have a response, when, if you sent that message today, you’re going to get crickets. And the psychology behind it is really simple. It could just be that you’re approaching a company or a person that is swamped at the moment, or that doesn’t have a budget at the moment, or doesn’t have the, let’s say, mental bandwidth to handle your request. It does not mean it’s no.

Jack Reamer:
So my suggestion, short of hiring a espionage service to spy on prospects, you need to just use spaced out messaging to give yourself a greater chance, a greater probability of meeting that prospect at the right time for them. So that’s why you don’t want to space all your messages within a month and then give up, right? So it’s far better to circle back with new messages that brings something new to the table, not, I have to say it because I hate those bump emails that are like, “Did you see this?”

Jack Reamer:
So with that, yeah, you need to space out your touch points. That’s the best you can do with timing, unless, and I’ll give you one more hopefully not too detailed answers. You need to find out what the timing looks like for accounts that you do business with. It could be that you do really well with companies that just raise money. And if that’s the case, you’re in shark infested competitive waters because everyone else is targeting based on funding. But if you know that’s part of your thing, then yeah, have a trigger set up so if a company mentioned, hey, they just raised capital, then maybe timing’s on your site.

Jack Reamer:
You can do the same thing with hiring. So we’ve got some campaigns that are triggered based on companies that are currently hiring UX designers in the US. If you are selling graphic design as a service, that may be a very intelligent timing trigger to build your list around.

Liston Witherill:
Okay. So let’s go back. So you said don’t put all of your messages into one month. I’d like to get a little bit more specific and this is where every guest starts to shift around in their seat because they don’t like to give blanket heuristics for every single case. But I’m curious, usually I would think of, for a cold campaign, maybe one email a week for a month.

Jack Reamer:
No.

Liston Witherill:
You say no? Okay, good. So disagree with me. Why is that a terrible approach?

Jack Reamer:
No, no, no. So look, so I don’t know if your listeners know this, but I cohost the Cold Email Outreach podcast with my friend, Jeremy, who runs QuickMail. And the nice thing about doing a podcast with Jeremy is we get to look at some QuickMail data and to see what works with outreach.

Jack Reamer:
So here’s what we learned. Here’s what data tells us about timing, Liston, is the closer together your messages are sent, the higher your reply rate will be, asterisked it doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be positive, right? So yeah, you could send three messages in the same day. You’re probably going to get a response, but it probably won’t be negative.

Jack Reamer:
So here’s what we do with this information is we sort of, there’s a Fibonacci Sequence, this Italian mathematician who said, basically, start with two numbers, add them together. That’s your third number. Add the second and third numbers together. That’s your fourth. That’s kind of how I structure email or outreach campaigns where it’s first message sent, then about a day later, maybe two days later, the second message sent, then three days later after that, then five days.

Jack Reamer:
And so, you start off stacked with like your first three messages happen within a week, and then after that, it tapers off so that maybe your fifth message happens a month or two apart from one another. And that’s definitely my recommendation for timing a sequence. I mean, that’s, I think, just best practice. Mic drop.

Liston Witherill:
Okay. So first of all, congratulations on being the first guest to mention the Fibonacci Sequence, also known as the golden ratio for all of you nerds out there if you want to look it up on Wikipedia, then you don’t have to spell Fibonacci. So do you, just from a technical standpoint, do you think about, “Okay, all right, I’m going to use this sort of Fibonacci approach,” which I think sort of excites the inner geek in me. So that’s great, right? So we’re going to do that. Do you schedule it all out at once? Is this like a big sequence you’re putting together that’s going to last a year or two?

Jack Reamer:
No. So I should say that we do a multichannel approach. So it’s not like we just log into an email tool, schedule it, and we’re done. So what we do is we connect with people on LinkedIn. We send a message on LinkedIn. If no reply, then we take it to email, and we use the email address shared in their LinkedIn profile. So I would say most of our campaigns aren’t classic cold emails, Liston. And that may freak people out because I’m Emails That Sell, cold email guy, but I just like sending warm messages to people already in my first degree network.

Jack Reamer:
And I’ll give you like one more cherry on top of that is I don’t invite anyone who’s not in my second degree already. So if you’re third degree, you won’t see anything from us. But if you happen to be sharing a connection, then you can enter the campaign on behalf of our client by accepting the invite, seeing the messages, and then email only after that.

Jack Reamer:
So you asked do we just set it and forget it? The short answer is no because, A, we test a lot of things so that’s really hard just to set and then walk away, and B, there’s so much that’s learned in the first four weeks of a campaign that we almost always go back and tweak messages in our fifth touch, sixth touch, that may not have even gone out just because we say, “Oh, this actually works kind of nice. We’re going to move this message up because it got a better response than the second message,” that kind of thing. The takeaway just, when you learn stuff, edit your campaign, resume it. That’s it.

Liston Witherill:
And is there a point at which you go, “Okay, I’m giving up. This person probably doesn’t want to hear from me.”

Jack Reamer:
So, you hear my sigh. Maybe you know where I’m going with this. So for my agency, yeah, typically because our clients have a larger market, then actually we have to stop everything and take one prospect out. I find that it’s worth the squeeze if you’re a particular company who’s got a high value customer and a very small market. Yeah, keep HubSpot updated with your, let’s say, ghosted prospects or people who just never got back to you. Start them again six months from now.

Jack Reamer:
And there’s a lot of kind of shady tactics on how you could restart it. I know some people send a message that’s like, “This is the last time I’ll contact you, yes or no,” and then they’ll give it to another person at the company. “Oh, hi, I’m whatever,” and then they kind of restart everything. It’s surprising that works, but it kind of does. It’s better just to be truthful with prospects, even if you decide to keep them on your campaign for years.

Liston Witherill:
You mentioned that you do both LinkedIn and email. If email works so well, why even mess around with LinkedIn?

Jack Reamer:
Because you could double your response by adding another channel.

Liston Witherill:
Say more about that.

Jack Reamer:
Not everybody is keen to reply to a cold email. Not everybody uses LinkedIn. Not everybody sends tweets on Twitter or likes on Facebook. Your prospects are not all the same. They’re not robotic. And just because they have an email address, it doesn’t mean that’s the best place to engage them, especially if you decide to take this first degree approach where you want to expand your network on LinkedIn and then use the network to sell to later on, which, to me, I think is the future and present of outreach. It’s about growing your network and then selling to your existing network, as opposed to just hitting up strangers. I’m thinking this is where the whole party’s moving.

Liston Witherill:
Tell me more about that. How is that different than what you’ve described already?

Jack Reamer:
How is what different?

Liston Witherill:
So you said the future of outreach is growing your network and then just selling to your network. Is that different than what you’ve already described?

Jack Reamer:
No. So that’s what we’re doing. That’s what we’re doing. But I still talk to people who haven’t embraced this mentality of the importance, the asset that your network is, using your network to expand your business where let’s go back five years. I think people are just like, “Yeah, I got a list of email addresses, I got an email tool, let’s go,” and I think that’s outdated.

Liston Witherill:
So LinkedIn, I have some strong thoughts about it. When I go on there, I think one thing that’s definitely true about LinkedIn, like any social network, is there’s lots of different ways that people can use it and interact with it. And your experience won’t necessarily be mine, right? So some people go there and they endlessly scroll through their newsfeed. Other people go there only to message people who they know. Other people go there to do research, maybe some combination. Recruiters of course go there to spam me. So, I’m curious, how do you think about LinkedIn and its place in building your network with this process of growing your professional network in order to sell to it?

Jack Reamer:
A couple of layers in that question. Personally, where do I see LinkedIn fit for me? It’s a prospecting tool. I mean, look, there’s people that share content and I’ve been one of those people, but in terms of what’s the best time spent for output? It isn’t just sharing stuff. And maybe there’s an exception. I’ve met some really cool people that come on the podcast through LinkedIn. But yeah, if I want to spend my time effectively, I’m using outreach to prospect and do outreach, and that’s about it for me.

Liston Witherill:
So you don’t share content on it?

Jack Reamer:
I used to. I used to and it didn’t pay off. Like my hourly rate when I was doing outreach on LinkedIn compared to when I was doing posting and organic stuff that LinkedIn encourages people to do and probably wishes I would say, it was dramatically overshadowed by the deals we got by doing outreach on the platform. So now I’m leaving a lot of people in the dark on what updates we’re doing, but I don’t care. I just pretty much do outreach and I’ll change my mind when the market tells me to.

Liston Witherill:
So, in practice, let’s just use an example you used earlier. So you used this example of kind of your softer commitment that you might reach out to someone with is, “Hey, we have this LinkedIn playbook.” So rather than just posting that in your organic feed, you’re saying you might go directly to people and say, “Would you like to see what’s working on LinkedIn for us?”

Jack Reamer:
It’s not even might, it’s just absolutely, that’s what we do. Yeah, it’s just black and white. We go straight to it.

Jack Reamer:
I’ll say a couple more things because people may not have the right idea when they think of Jack’s outreach. So, number one, every single human being that hears from us gets a personal written by a human being snippet about them. It doesn’t apply to anyone else in the universe and it hopefully does its job showing people that they’re just not a random row in a spreadsheet. We actually make it personalized. Now, there’s ethics involved in that where Jack’s sending the message, but not writing the personalization, but that’s what the agency does. We are representing clients and hustling on their behalf. And when replies come in, obviously they take over.

Jack Reamer:
I thought about the ethics of it for a while. I think we’re going to have a much more interesting debate when artificial intelligence gets better than my team of personalization folks.

Liston Witherill:
We’re nowhere near that. So don’t worry about it.

Jack Reamer:
Well, I talked to somebody who was building one and he basically, I’ll share a mini snippet, is you have certain links in your bio, that robot can crawl the link, grab content, and using, oh, it blows my mind, it’s a Python AllenNLP. It’s like a language processing library that can take the SAT and score better than most high school kids. And so it’ll just read a article and summarize it. And I don’t know when that’s going to happen, but I imagine personalization will become less of an advantage. And at that point, it’ll be something else. But for right now, it certainly makes an impact when you take the time to add personalization.

Jack Reamer:
And then the second thing, Liston, what I was going to add is we don’t spend a whole lot of that message talking about what we do. It’s pretty much showing interest in the prospect. That is the whole meat and potatoes of that message. I think a lot of people screw up when they think they are the coolest cat in town and they just go on and on about their stuff. That sounds like a pitch and I did not come on LinkedIn today to get pitched to, right? And I think that’s where so many people get it wrong is they make it all about your prospect.

Liston Witherill:
Yeah. I have a lot to say about that too. I just find, this isn’t a comment to you, but the whole game is totally disingenuous on all sides. And what I mean by that is… So a couple layers, right? So if I’m reaching out to someone, I am doing it because I think I can actually help them. That’s how they got this outreach in the first place. That is totally legit.

Jack Reamer:
How do you know if you can help someone?

Liston Witherill:
Well, I don’t. I’m basing it on shortcuts, to your example, based on the technology they used or do they look like someone I’ve helped in the past, or is there something I can observe about their business that would point me in the direction of I’m more than likely able to help this person, and especially relative to other people, right?

Liston Witherill:
But I always find it funny, on LinkedIn, to me, my perception of LinkedIn is the threshold for being suspected of selling to someone is much higher on LinkedIn. There’s a little bit more of an art to developing a little bit of banter back and forth, which, I’m a pragmatist, Jack, and so I look at that as like really feigning interest on all sides. Because I do want to know a little bit more, but there’s a little bit of a game that needs to be played around getting the person comfortable enough in order to interact with you.

Liston Witherill:
So I think the whole thing’s funny. I do think that it seems to me LinkedIn is getting more and more commercialized as a channel or maybe burned or maybe just flooded with these types of messages. Are you seeing considerable differences in how you have to use LinkedIn in order for it to be successful?

Jack Reamer:
Yeah, the biggest thing, I’ll give you two tips, you listener. Number one, you really do need to make it about your prospect. And if it sounds like a sales pitch, you’ve done a poor job. Go ahead and rewrite it, back off a whole lot. So it’s fine to ask for a meeting in that first initial LinkedIn outreach. That’s great. Best practice all the way. Don’t make it a sales pitch. Don’t make it a demo. Bring them straight to the call, take them off the channel. I think that’s fine. Just the core should be about them.

Jack Reamer:
And then, here’s the thing. It’s like, “Oh really? Should I just not say anything about our company?” We actually can change things dramatically for prospects. So you put a teaser, right? So it’s like 90% Liston, “By the way, here’s what’s going on with us. Happy to share if that piques your interest or whatever.” That’s kind of the thing.

Jack Reamer:
And then the second part to it is dress up your LinkedIn profile accordingly. You don’t want to bore somebody with your bio. You don’t want to make it read like a resume because that’s a poor sales tool. One thing that you should be doing before you do any kind of LinkedIn outreach is edit the title of your profile so that when I send you this LinkedIn message, Liston, I want it to have something that catches your attention in the title. So it’s just not like, “Jack, CEO,” nothing else. That’s a wasted opportunity to put something cool about yourself.

Jack Reamer:
So if you have a teaser, if you have, I don’t know, a figure, Nathaniel Bibby does this incredibly. You should check out his LinkedIn profile of, in my opinion, one of the best teasers. This is his title. It says Director, Bibby Consultant Group, and then a pipe, best use of LinkedIn 2019 award-winner, pipe, 3X Podcast host, pipe, number one LinkedIn expert in APAC, keynote speaker. Okay? So that’s just I think a really intelligent use of the LinkedIn title. That’s just showing people who you’re engaging with.

Liston Witherill:
Got it. So I think my takeaway from this episode is that we all have a lot of work to do to be as good as Jack at any of these things that we’re talking about.

Liston Witherill:
Jack, you shared a lot of great information today. I’m sure a lot of people listening will want to learn more about you, maybe even get in touch with you. What should they do?

Jack Reamer:
Cool. So if anything I said got your blood moving and you want to say hi, ask a question, or get a little bit more details, you can message me. Just go to EmailsThatSell.com, click over to the contact page and write me. I’ll get back to you. If you’re someone who’s thinking this topic is interesting, you can maybe learn to put this to practice at your company and you just want more, then I would encourage you to check out the podcast we do over at podcast.quickmail.io. And it’s basically over, I don’t know, 160 episodes on outreach. If you like this, you’ll probably like that.

Liston Witherill:
And I’d recommend it too because I’ve been on your podcast. So yeah, great podcast.

Jack Reamer:
Heck yeah, you’ve been on the podcast. Damn right. Thanks, Liston. Yeah, you schooled us on all things closing and just being a better sales person. So yeah, maybe that’s the best place to start and see what we grilled you on over there.

Liston Witherill:
Fantastic. Well, I’ll link to all of that stuff in the show notes. You can go click on it if you’re interested in checking that out. Jack, thanks for being here.

Jack Reamer:
Yeah, it was my pleasure, man. Thanks.

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